but for the saddles in bookstores this coming weekend watch for the authors in the near future on book tv and on booktv.org. the next three hours are a great chance to talk with author and journalist amy goodman, the host and executive producer of international radio program democracy now who will talk about war, politics, and grass-roots activism. she has written or co-written five bucks. ..

>> guest: we are supposed to be protected by the constitution and there are checks and balances on power. >> host: in the book war and peace, life and death, it is the role of the media to provide a forum for this discourse. to do anything less is a disservice to the men and women of this country. >> guest: that is right. i just flew in from denver. when we flew into the airport, many people hold up signs when you come out. as we were walking, there were soldiers there. and as we walked by, they were waiting. and i thought, okay, the general is behind me, because they had a sign. and then i thought, i should go

back and talk to them. so i went back and asked them if they watched "democracy now!". and they said everyday. and i asked why they watch and they said that its objective and they cover war. it is not about whether you are for or against war. is it about the media? just come to be is a huge kitchen table that stretches across the globe and we all sit around and debate and discuss the most important issues of the day. war and peace, life and death. anything less than that is a disservice to the men and women of this country. they can't have these debates. they rely on us as civilians to have the discussion that leads to the decisions about whether they live or die or whether they are sent to kill or be killed. anything less than that is a disservice to society.

>> host: one of your writings is the corporate media. that's what you call it. what is the corporate media, and what does it do or do not do. >> guest: that is what people say on television on most channels. nbc, cbs, cnn. those that turn to corporate support. those who are deeply committed -- when we cover climate change. not just brought you by the nuclear companies for coal companies the health care debate in this country is another one. not like you by big pharmacies ordered insurance investor industries. the brought to the listeners and viewers by listeners and viewers who feel that information is

power. that information is essential in the oxygen of democracy. >> host: back to the book "the exception to the rulers." you say that we call ourselves the exception to the rulers and we believe our media should be the sound barrier. what does that mean? >> so often on the networks we get this. explaining so much, getting it wrong. we talked to the people in this country and around the world. we talk to those who are at the heart of the story. it's not always easy to find. but i think it is why so many young people listen to "democracy now!". we have such a diverse audience and around the world.

they are talking from their own experience. i think that is the best kind of form. providing a forum for people to debate and discuss with each other at the critical issues. that is the role, a great diversity of people, is a great diversity. >> host: wended "democracy now"" start? >> guest: we started 17 years ago. it began on radio. it was february of 1996. that was the second election of president clinton, we didn't know about it at the time. i was actually in haiti when i got a call where the show was first established. when they said, do you want to

host this daily election show, i thought it was a very interesting challenge. people were going to the polls in places like haiti on the other side of the earth. yet the overwhelming majority of people voting, why do people not vote? the majority do not. i was interested in the primaries. to go to the states and see what people are doing on their community. how are people physically engaged. so we were broadcasting and just a few radio stations and then we

kept going and then september 11 happened. i'm talking about september 11, 2001. we were slated to go on one tv station. it was in new york. it was a public access tv station. we were broadcasting from an old firehouse that had been turned into a community media center. it was the closest national broadcast to the world trade center. we were going to be broadcasting on september 11, on television as well. and then the first plane hit the first tower at 8:47 a.m. we didn't know it was happening. the second plane hit at 9:03 a.m. we still don't know what was happening. we were doing a show with a

connection between care and forces that rose to power and the forces overseas, including a dictator that was ruthless, one who ran the country for 17 years, september 11, 2001. it is not the first time the country is connected with terror. it happened in 1977 in south africa. apartheid forces had a death as

well. and while ramallah unshared that was going on, guatemalan security forces were backed by us. september of 1971, my state in new york, that was the attic uprising. and then there were opened fire on the prisoners prisoner's killing something like 79 prisoners and guards. critically wounding others and it was not the first time that terrorists have come to u.s. soil. ask any african-american about slavery or native americans. september 11, 2001 was a

horrific moment. 3000 people incinerated in an instant. we will never know how many people actually died. because those that go unnamed and undocumented and life often go undocumented and death. they were the undocumented workers around the world trade center. but it was so horrific. it united us with victims of terror postmarks of this has been on the air since 2001. >> guest: that is right. stations around the country simply want to run this broadcast. we were dealing with breaking news. i didn't think we could just mail it to them. we didn't have access to satellites. the fedex guys would come, and

the community where it started running on television, the local radio would say, can we run the show. npr stations, public access stations all over the country. so today we are broadcasting over 1100 public radio stations around the country and the world, the headlines are also available in spanish and also writing a weekly column. to provide a roadmap for people to see what and also hear these independent voices that are so often not reflected in the media.

>> host: funding? >> guest: it is run by foundations and networks that fondness and listener and viewers support. all over the country and around the world, people committed to independent media. >> host: you say that we are reporters. we go to places that are unpopular. where were you in november of 1991? >> guest: well, in november of 1991, i went to the small country, which at the time was occupied by indonesia. it was east timor. i went with my colleagues. superb journalists in this country. we have gone there the year before to investigate what was happening there. then at the end of october of 1991, december 1975. at the time, it was secretary of

state henry kissinger. he flew into at the capital of indonesia. they gave the go-ahead for the invasion. and the indonesian military invaded east timor by land and air and sea. they occupied the country and for the next 17 years, they slaughtered the people. one of the big genocides of the late 20th century. the genocide was worse than cambodia. the difference was in terms of people knowing what was happening. americans knowing what was happening. the president, the secretary of state, the media would cover it. and the media should have covered it. but in case of indonesia, they

were an ally of the united states. whether it was on to reagan and bush and clinton, they did not talk about the atrocities of east timor. so we went there to do our job as journalists. what we found there was a real hell on earth. november 12, 1991. they killed a third of the population. and that at that moment people went to church, to the catholic church, most of the country is catholic and it had been occupied by portugal for many centuries. and they went to the flagship church about 300 miles above australia. and then after the church went

out into the street, they didn't allow freedom of speech or press. freedom of assembly. the two weeks after we arrived, the indonesian military surrounded the church and they had pulled the young men from going into the church at point blank range. they had a funeral for a young man the next day and thousands of people turned out. two weeks later, they were having a commemoration procession. the people marched into the street and you can see a girl in her catholic school uniform and the girls and boys would pull out banners that they had written on bed sheets and they would hold them up and they would say things like why did the indonesian military shoot our church.

we will peel to george h. w. bush who was there at the time -- someone at the u.n. to stop the slaughter. they marched through the streets, retracing the steps of the funeral two weeks before. some putting their hands up. viva east timor and independence. it's so incredibly brave to do this. and thousands joined from school and work and home. when we got there, we were interviewing people. asking them why are you risking your life to do this. they would say for my mother and my father. for my village. and then from the direction the procession had come. we saw hundreds of indonesian soldiers carrying the m-16s. marching up in the crowd. the indonesian army was armed and trained by the fine soldiers

of the united states. and it was no different. it locked up in the middle of the crowd and we knew that the indonesian military had committed many massacres, but they had never done it in front of western journalists. we thought maybe our presence could head off this attack. anyone caught talking to a western journalist could be killed. i put my headphones on, i held up my microphone. we walked to the front of the crowd. the soldiers rounded the corner. they swept past without any warning or provocation. they opened fire on the crowd, gunning people down from right to left.

a group of soldiers gathered around me, they pulled my microphone away. saying this is what we don't want, then they beat me with a rifle butt. then someone threw himself on top of me to protect me, they took the u.s. m-16s and slammed them against schools until a fracture. everyone is covered in blood. we are laying in the street. and then they put the dimestore head. the only thing i have left was my passport and my skirt and i threw at it at them. and they were shouting to things. australia and politics. they were saying it was political for us to witness this. but that is our job as journalists.

they were asking we were from australia. and we knew how dangerous that was for us. seventeen years before it, there were five australian journalists that work hovering it. there was a sixth journalist the day after the invasion, december 8, 1975, he was the last western journalist there. they broke into the radio station and they shot him into the harbor with many tim oren's. the australian government hardly protected the killing of as journalists. it was provided between

australia and indonesia. so much pain in the world. so as we later covered in blood, and they are shouting australia and we are shouting back now, america, america. i said i was born here in washington dc. i took my passport out. they kicked me in the stomach, i get my breath back, and then i said america. at some point, they took the guns from our heads. we were from the same country that the weapons were from. they would have to pay a price for telling us. but they never had to pay for those of their own country. a red cross pulls up and we were able to get into it. the driver was in a state. he would put his hands up and we drove up to a hospital to try to

get away from this killing field. then we drove to the hospital. the doctors and nurses started to cry when they saw us. not because we were were in worse shape than the people that were being dragged there. but it was because what we represented to the people of timor. people all over the world, i think we represent two things. the sword represented a regime. but they also see us as a shield. people can march in the streets here.

we went into hiding. we did not succeed in stopping it. we went to the bishop's house. at the time, she won the nobel peace prize. and alan was covered in blood. his dark hair glistened. and i thought maybe we could get on the only plane out. and we wanted to get word to the outside world. we made it to the airport to close down the falsity. we heard gunfire. we got to the airport.

they were shouting security when we came. we don't know if they had decided not to kill us and now they just wanted us out or if the had a lack of communication. but at some point they decided to let us get on the plane. allen had electrical charge is going through his body from the beating. we had to walk slowly. we walked onto the tarmac in the plane. and as they closed the plane, they handed me a silver bowl and set clean him up. we made our way to west timor and it was reported in detail what had taken place. when we were hiding, someone took pictures of us. we knew that they would deny anything that would happen. i had that film away. and i had taken this and wrapped the bloody shirt under it so

that at least we could show this evidence. so when we got to bali, they kept wiping the phone off because the blood was drenched. we then went to the memorial hospital and it was there at the hospital at all the press from around the world became a switchboard for the press. "the new york times" from "the washington post." bbc, what happened here -- and of course, the military denied anything took place. and we never stop telling the story even if we had the phone glued to our ears. we were brought to a cnn outpost and someone developed a photograph it we had gone out.

and we said a massacre was taking place that will make up to washington, we had a news conference and we described the weapons that were used. calling for the u.s. stop arming the regime. in 1999, eight years later, we finally got a chance to vote for freedom in a sponsored referendum. as the people went to the polls in timor, the indonesia military burned east timor to the ground, killing more than a thousand more in that voting process. and then on may 20, 2002, the indonesian military, going to

jakarta and deported me. but three years later, became australia. it was about midnight. about 100,000 were outside of the capital village. and then the leader who had long been in prison by the military, assembled the stage. and he unfolded the flag of the democratic republic and there was a fireworks display. you could see the light reflected in the tear stained faces of the people of timor. they won at an unbelievable high price. but this nation of survivors had survived. it is a lesson to all of us.

eleven years after, whether we are journalists or business people, professors, doctors, students. whether we are librarians, whether we are employed or unemployed. we have a decision to make every hour of every day whether we want to represent the sword or the shield. >> host: afternoon from washington. you're watching booktv on c-span2 and this is our in-depth program. this is our author. three hours with your phone calls and facebook comments and e-mails. our guest is the amy goodman, cohost of "democracy now!". she has five nonfiction books. "the exception to the rulers" in 2004, the media that love them, in 2006 she came out with

"static", and then "standing up to the madness" and her most recent, "the silenced majority." stories of uprising occupation and it came out last year. 202 is the area code. for those of you in eastern and central time zones, if you live in the mountain or pacific time zones come you can also make comments on social media. you can go to our facebook page. it is posted right at the top of the page and you can make a comment under the amy goodman section. or you can send us an e-mail at c-span.org.

amy goodman, the most recent book. silent majority. where did the title come from. >> guest: i really do think that those who are concerned about growing inequality in this country, people who are concerned about climate change, they are not a silent majority. but the silenced majority. silenced by the corporate media. >> host: do you consider yourself objective? >> guest: i consider myself care and accurate. that is the highest expectation if you have is a journalist. >> host: how do you define democracy? >> guest: i think people have different definitions. but it is about people in charge

of their government. people participating in their government. i think that we must strive for that every single day. democracy is a grassroots mobile effort. "democracy now!" -- and providing a forum for people to have discussions allows us to raise issues and hear them hashed out. there can be many sides of an issue in many perspectives and to try to bring those perspectives to lie. and i think it can be a great equalizer. providing a forum. to be able to talk to each other. that is the world of journalism must play in ensuring a democratic society.

>> host: in your newest book, "the silenced majority", you talk about trying to get into canada. >> guest: well, yes. every year we travel around the country. we broadcast from community content community, media, public radio stations all around the country. we do fundraisers for them because of the way the public media has supported listeners and viewers. so we are describing a situation in 2009 for my colleague and i we are going from seattle, speaking there, two days ago we broadcasted in denver. we broadcast every day, but then

we went to the studio and it was the first time that this station actually had a global broadcast. he worked with the people, students, volunteers and that is what we were doing in 2009. we broadcast from seattle. so we talked turkey in canada and we were invited by three community media outlets to give a talk at the vancouver public library. so we are crossing the border. and we are about an hour from vancouver nicholas aside and customs. i handed over my passport is pouring rain. we pulled over, we ran into this warehouse facility.

and they said, can you come forward, please. so we went forward. so i said if i am entitled to a phone call, can i call the chief librarian. to say that we are going to be late. and they said, do you know what you're talking about tonight? and i said, at the library? and they said yes, hand over your notes. i said it's a public talk, you could come. i don't really have notes in that way. it was a kind of no man's land in the order. i knew that i couldn't put up too much of a fight. so that book was about breaking the sound barrier. and so i've pretty much listed

at in the book. so i got a copy of the book and handed it to the customs agent and the border guard. one of them started reading it. another one started writing and another was typing into the computer. and they said to tell them what i was going to say. that is about the health care fight in the united states. interestingly, sarah palin's book came out at the same time and she also went to canada to speak. and they didn't detain her. here i was talking about the virtues of the health care system. the title of the column in the book, i said health care reform needs an action hero.

and imagine the scene, 18,000 people have died in one ear, and average about 50 a day. who's telling them? to investigate, president obama might be tempted to call on jack bauer from the hit tv series 242 invariably employs torture. the terrorism isn't the culprit here. it is lack of adequate health care. so maybe the present solution isn't just that, but the actor who plays him. the star is kiefer sutherland and his family has have a connection to health care reform in canada. tommy douglas is his grandfather. and tommy douglas was at the premier of saskatchewan as a

child he almost lost his leg and the doctors save him. he felt that public health care was critical. so he thought for a public health care, who took him on, remarkably enough, the american medical association. now it became so popular that it spread across canada and became canada's national health care system. so this is what i am telling the border guards and they are writing what i'm when i'm sitting down, and i say it, okay, maybe -- i talked about how kiefer sutherland had gone to alberta and health care was privatized in canada. if he would speak to his audience in the united states, maybe we would get public health care passed in the united states. and they looked at me and said

what is he talking about. and i said, well, as good a talk about the economy. the terrible recession and depression we are going to go through and they said what else. and i said i will be discussing the wars in iraq and afghanistan. and they said what else. and i said it's only an hour talk. and they said, are you denying that you're going to be talking about the vancouver olympics? no, they said are you denying the will be talking about the olympics. and i looked at them and said, olympics? president obama just went to copenhagen to try to get the olympics in the united states. and that made them think i wasn't telling the truth. are you denying that we are coming here to talk about this? and i said well, until now i

wasn't coming to talk about it. they pulled me aside, took my picture, took my colleague's picture, and i opened it up in bed we have 40 hours to stay in canada. that is the longest our trip was going to be. i'm speaking at victoria at the library. thank goodness for canadians. they had all gone out for beers in the audience had come back threefold larger because of what had taken place. i gave my talk and discuss the vancouver olympics and asked why would people be concerned? and interestingly, we stayed at a bed and breakfast and everyone was having tea right before dinner at 6:00 o'clock. and i sat down quietly in his room at the bed-and-breakfast were the folks were having tea and we turn on the news and the first story was about me getting detained and everyone looks over at me and says oh, no. i was just there to give a speech.

the second story was about the vancouver city council that had voted that anyone who would put up a sign against the olympics, the house could be rated, so the civil liberties association was involved. there was a great outcry. it got a lot of attention in canada. that they would detain an american journalist to know what i would say it wasn't satisfactory, keep me from coming into the country. so the next show that we did was about the vancouver olympics. but let it never be said it provides fodder for a show. >> host: hemi- speeches to give a year? >> guest: many speeches. we did the silenced majority, about 100 city tours, as we're

traveling we go to universities, we have public events. namely fundraisers for community media stations around the country post that most of your books are dedicated in memory of your parents. who were they? >> guest: my wonderful parents. my dad died about 12 years ago. he was an ophthalmologist and i grew up in long island. and he was just committed to us and the community being a better place. i don't even talk about people being activist at that time. a mother taught women's history and literature at a local community college. the example of my mother who died a few years ago, a truly wonderful woman.

such a great role model and she was a love in the community, as my father once. she took women's literature in history, continuing education for truck drivers and hobson it would mean a higher salary, they would say, okay, this will be easy. and she was teaching them about virginia woolf and great writers and this is a time of women's liberation. this is what they are talking about. and then the classrooms would be hacked with those enrolled and their families. then she referenced social work. he had a very famous face, no not local railroad stations and he looked exactly like the

poster. maybe this poster of a doctor in a white jacket with a stethoscope with a nuclear mushroom and a stethoscope. so my dad also led the task force when i was in elementary school. he helped to integrate the schools in our community. we had a diverse community, it was pretty much a factor of segregation where people lived. and so i would go with him to cafeterias and auditoriums of the schools. there would be a thousand screaming parents. death threats against the task force was going to decide what to do. ultimately, he's so judiciously made his way to a more just solution in our community.

i am pleased that their legacy lives on. they are such an inspiration. >> host: amy goodman is our guest and host of turn two. we are going to start taking calls now. we begin with john in santa barbara. >> caller: thank you for having me. i have been trying to think what show have i watch longer than "democracy now!", and it is the longest one i've ever watched. there is a solution to all of these problems. it is the article five convention, congress put out a paper last year about the article five convention. all we need is people like amy goodman and peter and c-span2 hold this kind of convention. people think it will be

controlled and they hear about a a convention, but it's just open discussion. there's nothing to control. this would allow for this discussion you are talking about where it that people can actually come together and build a consensus. so at any point will c-span and democracy now start talking about needs and her political connections? >> guest: is growing a little bit more. >> host: i'm sorry, moving onto another caller. go ahead. >> guest: i would have to make the comments instead of talking about something i don't know as much about. >> caller: you brought tears to my eyes for the first time watching c-span, making your remarkable witness.

i can now listen to "democracy now!" live on my station. i appreciate all of the of ability to capture this on c-span. i would like to recommend that you have more authors and book reports but also have stories to tell, particularly about 9/11 and the war on drugs. thank you very much. >> guest: we talk about book authors. i met a woman and you will soon hear her story. for folks who live in little rock, arkansas, you will hear

the story. this is a story that has made history in this country. i was so moved by this story. carlotta was the youngest member of the little rock nine. she was 14 years old in 1967 and she signed a petition. she went to the african-american school. but she knew that the resources were there. and in the fall came around. i mean, she was 14 years old. little rock explodes. the court house was blown up. they put a bomb under it.

but the kids to land. a wild mob prevented them. a wild mob prevented them. by september 23, they tried again to integrate the school. she's 14 years old. on that day, she described how a group of african-american reporters, the courier, baltimore, amsterdam news, covering the civil rights movement, and how they were talked about. so often those with cameras and pens and pencils documenting. they were beaten and chased. then the kids went back for a third time. it is hard to think about the little rock children. by then, after what happened to

the reporters, president eisenhower called out the national guard. it protected them. and carlotta was the only female member of the little rock nine who graduated two years later. she left the next morning. she left that city of so much pain and yet of so much achievement. his voice is like those that we must hear all over this country. we have talked about the importance of having media tell the story of people at the grassroots level are engaging in these kinds of acts of courage even now. >> host: our production team and tells of the first caller is back on. the caller from santa barbara. and he would like to have an

amendment to the u.s. constitution. have you thought about that? >> guest: we see these movements building. it is a constitutional amendment that would say that corporations are not people. which is a big movement in this country, the way that corporations are treated, especially when it comes to pouring money into politics. but if you violate their ability, you are violating a person's freedom of speech. many people consider that a great problem that we have to face in this country today. the issue of money and politics. who determines who the leaders of this country are, who are the elected officials. once they are elected, what they vote for. >> host: we have an e-mail from a viewer that says you have one

of the best programs in the united states, but to do so, please include multiple points of view. and i like her programs because i can get plenty of mainstream. it included a mainstream gast, we could think through the whole subject, and i think she would have a fabulous program. >> that is an interesting point. i am looking at our broadcast from just this past week. we had an interesting debate, many debates. two men from nelson, georgia, nelson is the second city in georgia to pass a resolution or a law unanimously. every head of household must have a gun.

so we had to residents that said that people would pass by nelson if they were going to commit a crime because they know that everyone has a gun. but that may also have one who is opposed to this. there are conscientious objectors. some do not want a gun. and we had a debate about this. but what does it mean. we have many debates on "democracy now!" >> host: thank you for holding, yuan would amy goodman on booktv on c-span2. >> caller: hello, the person i wanted to say thank you. i watched "democracy now!", it's a very important program. and i have two quick questions for you. you talked about hope and

looking for key signs of hope in the political landscape. and you mentioned that you don't think the lack of voting in this country is due to activity. we think it's due to? >> thank you for tuning in to "democracy now!" where people can check it out. i had an interesting experience on election day of 2000. we got an interesting call one morning. we were about to go on the air and we got a call. i thought they said white house indications that we were just about on the air. the users are already in our studio. i was running in as usual.

so the music was already swelling at the beginning of "democracy now!". and i thought, whitehorse is this famous pattern in new york where dylan thomas drink himself to death and i thought, why would a barbie calling us at 9:00 o'clock in the morning? so i said, what you he won't? and they said the president wants to come out and i said the president what? they said the president of the united states. this is white house medications. and it was bill clinton. he wanted to come on the show. and i said the president wants come on "democracy now!" and they said yes, he will call you in a few minutes. hillary clinton was running for the senate and al gore was running for president. so i didn't know if this was a prank call and i said okay,

whatever. women on the air, and i said to the producers, the president might be calling, make sure you pick up the phone if he does. and we went on with the show. he didn't call. so we didn't know what was. we were going out for coffee because we know would be a long day. this is election day. we knew that one day would stretch into five weeks. we would get coffee, start the election, and we hear a yelp coming from the control room and the next show is on. it is a latino music show and they said the president is on the phone. and as i run in, all of the music is up, and you hear president clinton saying hello, hello, is anyone there. and still i hurl myself over and i said yes, mr. president. i understand you want to talk about getting out the vote. and i asked him at the beginning about that.

and i asked many people about voting in the deal that many are not happy about corporations. and he responded. so i asked him about the fella that was convicted of killing two fbi agents. it continues to this day to maintain he didn't commit the crime. president clinton never spoke publicly about it. so he addressed it. i was there with the program and we ran back and forth, asking about the puerto rican island, the u.s. navy and at the time, asking one they would stop, i asked him about racial

profiling. this is a time when ralph nader was running. they saw him as a threat. and i asked that president clinton be responsible for ralph nader success because he had brought the democratic party to the race. it was at that point the president clinton said, i find you hostile and combative and at times disrespectful. so i said okay, and i just have a few more questions. asked about racial profiling because al gore had said he became president he would be the first executive order to do away with racial profiling. so i said if that is the intention, i said why haven't you done it until now. but anyway, after that, he got off the phone. it got a lot of attention. next day i get a call from a local newspaper in new york and i'm talking to the reporter and i get another comment from the

white house. so i put the phone down. at the time we used tape recorders. and i said, just one minute, please. who happens to hear this? well, this is a time and they are using phones and not cell phones. and they said, it had something to do about being banned from the white house. and i said, what he talking about? and they said that i broke all the basic rules of agreement that we had. and i said i have no agreement with you. i was going on the air in one second to reduce the president might call. that was the extent of our conversation. and they said that he wanted to talk about getting out the vote. and they said questions one and four and seven related but not the other ones. i said i understood that that is what he wanted to talk about. but we are independent. we are journalists.

and i said from the other radio stations did you call? and they said oh, many. he spoke like 40 thomas. and all of them just agreed to ask you questions you wanted to ask? nice about the sad state. i said he is the leader of the free world. so i'm doing my job, asking as many questions as i could until he decided to get off the phone, which he ultimately did. it was very interesting as far as conversation goes. it got a lot of attention. that issue of an agreement that you have, that journalists have with politicians, you know, i have covered the white house, covering the white house press corps, and all too often,

journalists engage in the access of evil. that it is trading truth for access. and you can come back to the newspaper or website or whatever news organization. you were the one to ask the question. politicians the journalist more than journalists and politicians. we should not be making those deals. i'm trying to remember why i told you that story. but you asked the question about -- about the listener that is called. >> host: lack of voting and hope. >> guest: that's right. i was the first question that i posed to president clinton. the idea that people across the political spectrum, individuals are losing control.

corporate power is a tremendous threat to democracy right now. also the issue of privacy. we hope the people across the political spectrum are organizing. people are, you know, they are engaging in the highest civic duty, which is to participate. whatever comes out of that, what matters is people and not the corporation to determine the laws of this country. >> host: you account our conversation with the president. in a chapter called not on vended me. there is a transcript here, and this is the first answer of the first question. mr. president, are you there, i am, can you hear me. yes, we can. you're calling radio stations to tell people to vote. what you say to people who feel that the two parties are bought by corporations and feel that

their vote doesn't make a difference? my guess is that the last time you talked to president clinton? >> guest: interestingly enough, he was in east timor and they were establishing the east and the seats we had a chance to actually challenge him about u.s. policy, so we had very interesting interaction. but no, i have never personally interviewed him after that. >> host: where did you have the presence of mind to jump right into a conversation with the president of united states? >> guest: people prepare their whole lives for an interview with the president of the united states. he had a call-in and is a huge responsibility. whether talking to the president or anyone else.

not a lot of people get to ask the question. and so there are so many people are behind us and they didn't have to be at work if they could only get a job. i take it extremely seriously. as i think many journalists do. you know, what are the questions that make the difference for most people in this country. >> host: okay, every question you asked has been hostile and combative, so will you listen to my answer, we do that? goodness, they have been critical questions. >> guest: yes, that was correct. he is very critical about asking questions like that. okay, jay carney at the white

house press gathering, the follow-up, why does a democracy now ever get a chance to interview the president of any other major government. >> guest: we do interview major officials. we are not at the white house right now, but i do believe that if we wanted to be, we could. >> host: why not? >> guest: we just don't have the resources to dedicate a reporter there. we do it daily news are based in new york city all the architects are out there. we have platinum certification, which means in the green room and kitchen area, crushed recycled bottles are cemented together.

but many stations have to deal with, we pioneered away because there is always working out trying to use less energy in dealing with this. because we really do believe that the medium must be the message. what is interesting about this every morning is of the stations can run it all day. and we put out transcripts everyday of every show. students come and watch the broadcast. whether graduate students were fourth-graders, it is a commend this opportunity. really a civic education.portun. really a civic education. then the guests get to ask questions and we talk about what journalism is today. in a democratic society.

we ask volunteers and interns and fellows as well. these classes come from around the world and around new york city. it has been a remarkable experience to hold these forms everyday. >> host: next call. we have lee from rockville, maryland. >> caller: thank you for coming, amy. i am a long-time listener and listen to every morning. >> guest: forty listen, by thefe way? >> caller: in washington and i have been a contributor for many years. i take issue with your reporting on israel. you vilify israel and i'm glad you pointed out this morning how objective you are.

so year and a half ago, there were 20 or 30 standing ovations by the members of congress. "democracy now!" reported on it. it was not objective. what you said was prime minister netanyahu shouted down as a demonstrator. one woman got up and started yelling and she was, you know, in the arab countries she would've been carted off and thrown in jail and beaten and raped. in the united states and israel, they just pick her up and, you know, read her rights and let her go. the reporting was that she was

affected by a palestinian demonstrator and not that he got 20 or 30 standing ovations. your member that? >> guest: well, i want to address the larger issue that you raised, which is a serious one. and it's covering the israel palestine conflict and how important it is to bring out the voices across the political spectrum. i fear that the media -- in essence it is changing. i am reporting often and we see that with israel as well. we very much bring out different perspectives. and we interview [inaudible name] who is the former israeli foreign minister. he said it was the most excited

content extensive discussion we have had. and we don't just do soundbite television and radio. we give the whole meal. we will have extended debates and discussions about these critical issues. you know, we interview palestinian journalists, academics, people on the ground, and we interview the israelis as well. i think one area that is overlooked in the united states is the israeli peace movement. but i think public opinion is shifting dramatically. students on college campuses, jewish and non-jewish, they have a different perspective. whether it comes to the number of palestinians that they are holding, palestinian prisoners who died in custody, protests,

giving voice to those protests. we had a reporter documenting these attempts with the israeli embargo and what does it mean to be in the state. sadly, when the israeli military opposite shore, they took all of our equipment, computers, cameras, this was more than a year ago and it is rhodes said they will not be returning it. it was very important that we reflect on what is happening on the ground. these are difficult things. but the situation in israel and palestine must be results. it's not good for palestinians or israelis. it's a conflict that must be resolved to.

>> host: you can go to facebook.com and you can also send us a tweet. at the tv is our twitter handle. this is from amanda who has sent several comments and would like to have a couple issues addressed. is there one place on earth are that you haven't traveled that you would like to? >> guest: there are many places i haven't traveled to. we speak with people all over the world. there's a new film that i recommend to everyone. jeremy started working with us in the late '90s. we went to nigeria together and we covered it, particularly looking at chevron. i was doing the local morning show a few years ago, almost 65

years ago in california, they were individuals who came out of detention camps who said that there has to be a media outlet that is not run by corporations but journalists. so pacifica was born. the first station in berkeley, that was from 1949. then another station here in washington, the youngest of the five stations in 1977. so that is the five stations. it's very interesting. he went on the air in the spring of 1970 and it is the only radio station's transmitter was blown up by the ku klux klan.

they blew the transmitter to smithereens. silver lining of this was that it's not that pacifica had the money to advertise this new station. they blew it into the consciousness of the potential listening audience. i got back on their feet, they rebuilt their transmitter and the clan blew it up again. i cannot remember the title. but they said it was because we understood how dangerous the independent media is. dangerous because it allows people speak for themselves. when you hear a palestinian child or an aunt or uncle from afghanistan telling her story, makes it much more difficult to character or stereotype.

he begins the process of understanding and finding common ground. you don't have to agree. but you start to understand where they are coming from. i believe the media can be the greatest force for peace on earth. but it is wielded all too often as a weapon of war and i think that has to be challenged. >> host: one more question. >> guest: jeremy was a producer with "democracy now!", then he was part of the world's most powerful mercenary army. his latest book is coming out the next two weeks. and it is called wars. the film by the same name is also coming out.

very important film about war waged by the united states and joint special operations and what is happening. especially especially drone attacks. it is very interesting. so we went to nigeria at the end of the '90s and we went to the niger delta to investigate. i met a man a few years before when i was just on a local station doing a show called wake-up call. i said maybe you could come back another day. and they said, i'm sorry, he's here for one day and he needs to go on. i said okay, two minutes. let me introduce him. he was one of the most famous

nigerians, and he was taking on shell corporation which crisscrossed. unlike the united states where this is illegal, they would flare gas in these communities. they lived in the shadow of the flames. military and government power and working for the shell corporation. he said when i go home, i will be arrested. he did go home.

.. >> guest: and they were or, they wanted a forest cleaned up, and they wanted jobs. ultimately, chevron flew in the nigerian military onto this barge, and they opened fire. they killed two nigerians and critically wounded another. and we did a documentary called

"drilling and killing." and it's those kinds of stories that we feel are critical to shed a spotlight on places that americans might not know about and, you know, you can't gun protesters down in front of chevron headquarters in california. so why is it that this could happen in nigeria, in africa's most populace country? it's our job as journalists to go to where the silence is and to bring back these stories. >> host: mitch, facebook comment. amy, is capitalism the best system for black americans? >> guest: um, i mean, i think the whole issue of capitalism today is one that must be debated and discussed. what is the best system in this country right now. democracy now has long covered grassroots movements, and i think people across the political spectrum are deeply concerned about that sucking sound from the bottom to the top

right now. we are seeing the largest gaps in inequality, and we have to really evaluate this system, and we need elected leaders who are not, um, more beholden to corporations and to wall street than to the people who elected them. >> host: this is an e-mail from richard, what happened to the occupy wall street movement of a year ago? did it fail to achieve its objectives? is such an endeavor hopeless because the general public is apathetic or unmobilized for whatever reason? >> guest: i mean, the occupy movement, i don't think we have seen the end of it. i think it takes different forms. but what happened in the last two years around the world was truly remarkable. first you had the tunisian revolution at the end of december 2010 which which sparked the egyptian uprising and the egyptian uprising

rebroadcast the egyptian uprising through our reporter on the ground who did remarkable reporting. he was our senior producer for eight years in new york. when the egyptian uprising happened, um, he flew home, basically, into tahrir and, essentially, didn't leave for 18 days. his reporting, he became one of the top tweeters in the world, you know? mubarak had brought down the internet with the help of u.s. corporation, he couldn't have done it alone. and even when the internet was brought down, he was tweeting out to the world what was happening, he was being cited on all the networks and then being interviewed on all the networks. and, you know, the thugs then brought down the satellites. and -- but democracy now was bringing out these remarkable 20-minute video reports as sharif and our videographer would travel through tahrir interviewing people, viewing

what really, i mean, sharif's reporting was remarkable. you met, for example, the great egyptian writer who wrote "map of love" in tahrir. you met the 79-year-old at the time, former presidential candidate, psychiatrist. she had been imprisoned under sadat, she'd been exiled under mubarak, holding salams for young people when they were despondent saying how will we take on mubarak, she would say we will win, we will win. you meet the young high school student who was putting out a broad sheet in tahrir that was bringing out the voices of people in this uprising, and she would put them out, this group of young people, high school students, in the shadow of the state media building that had spewed lies for so long. and you meet all of them through these remarkable reports of sharif. and then he would be interviewed on msnbc and cnn and all the

networks, of course, broadcasting on democracy now. we call that trickle-up journalism. but you went from the egyptian revolution to what happened in wisconsin, a remarkable uprising there where 150,000 people gathered at the capital deeply concerned that governor walker was eviscerating union rights and the rights of teachers and others in wisconsin. i mean, what we saw there hasn't been seen in wisconsin in its entire history. and then that sparked, i think, in the united states what happened in september of 2011. and that was september 17th when people marched on zucotti park. i think we were the first broadcast, global tv/radio broadcast, to talk september 17th before september 17th. the networks, though, many of them are based in new york, hardly touched it for the first week. they would be walking by but hardly touched this grassroots

uprising. but if you cover grassroots movement, you saw it coalescing, what was about to happen. and they were inspired by what a few weeks before you had 1200 people arrested at the white house protesting the keystone xl pipeline which is a decision now in 2013 president obama's about to make whether the keystone xl will be allowed, the pipeline that will take the tar sands oil from alberta to the gulf of mexico. and there have been massive protests around this. the people who got arrested there, some of them moved up to new york and joining many others in new york and others who had come into new york to really change the paradigm and the discussion in this country of who benefits and who doesn't. and that was the occupy movement. september 17th changed so much in this country. as to what happens now, police went after encampments all over the country knocking out the

actual physical encampmentings. but i think it's percolating in all different ways. there's a difference consciousness in this country that, again, unites people across the political spectrum deeply concerned about who has power in this country. >> host: sean quixote tweets in: amy goodman, do you think president barack obama has been a positive or negative force against the military industrial complex? >> guest: um, it's very important as journalists that we evaluate president bush's record, as we evaluated president obama's record, as we evaluated president bush's record. um, people are deeply concerned about what is happening today in this country. i mean, whether we're talking about the keystone xl pipeline and climate change or talking about the crackdown that we are seeing in this country on

whistleblowers. and this extends from one of the government's top secret agencies, the nsa, the national security agency, which is a number of times larger than the cia, whistleblowers like william benny and others who joined the nsa, the national security agency, because they were deeply concerned about national security and wanted to serve their country and then started to speak out about what it was doing. after they tried the channels within the agency, deeply concerned about, for example, surveillance of americans. they were finding that programs were being developed not to improve national security, but to actually data mine americans. and as they spoke out, one by one they faced prosecution or persecution in the case of william benny, the authorities raided his house, had him at gun

point in his shower. he was a diabetic amputee, his family terrified. and in the case of others, they are charged, like thomas drake. and under the obama administration, there have been more whistleblowers, um, charged than in all past presidential administrations combined. it's a very serious issue which then brings us to the case of bradley manning. this young soldier who went to iraq and has now pled guilty to, um, having released hundreds of thousands if not millions of pages of documents to wikileaks, documents that documented what was happening in iraq, in afghanistan and then the state department cables, the largest trove of state department cables ever released. decades worth. and it's astounding, if this is

all true, that he was able to do this in the desert in iraq. but he has been in jail now for almost three years. he has not yet been tried, though he recently pled guilty to some of the charges. what message does this send to especially young soldiers who are concerned about what has happened and the direction our country has taken? you cannot hear his voice. on democracy now we recently broadcast bradley manning's voice. because someone secretly recorded his testimony at fort meade where he is being tried. why is it so dangerous to even hear his voice? what message is being sent to people? i think it's way beyond bradley manning. it's, it's about what it means to be a whistleblower, and the message being sent is we will crush you. we will destroy you.

what are some of those documents, videos that were released? i mean, when, you know, newspapers all over the world worked with wikileaks when these documents because they were so important, so newsworthy, "the new york times," the guardian in london, el paez in spain, "der spiegel" in germany, these have been so significant especially at a time of a crackdown on information, and i just want to tell the story of one video that was released that we broadcast on democracy now. wikileaks called it the collateral murder video, but it was a video, um -- well, i'll start with one of the documents that came out of of the wikileaks papers in iraq was about an incident in february of 2007 where an apache helicopter unit in an area of baghdad was hovering, and they saw two iraqis putting their hands up in a surrender sign. they didn't know what to do. this is all written because

these documents are written by low-level soldiers, by officers. these aren't peace activists on the ground, these are the logs of daily activity and war. and they describe how these two iraqis had put their hands on, they didn't know what to do. the lawyer on the base said you can't surrender to a helicopter, so they blew these iraqis away. i dare say if people knew at the time what had taken place, there would have been an outcry, an investigation. and that might have been prevented what happened six months later. july 12, 2007, in an area of baghdad called new baghdad, um, two reuters employees, an up and coming videographer who was 22, and his driver, he was 40 and had four children, and drivers in wartime are more than drivers, more than fixtures. they are so important, because international reporters helicopter into a place like iraq or afghanistan, they need to get a lay of the land

quickly, and those that drive them around, that take them to that indigenous to the area, they are telling them about what's happening, they're introducing them to people. said was glove inside reuters -- beloved in the out -- reuters community. there had been a bombing the day before, and then this same apache helicopter is hovering overhead. and what this video is, is a video taken by the helicopter. so it's recording the voices of the soldiers in the helicopter and documenting what is happening below, showing the video of what's happening below. you hear them cursing, you hear them laughing, this callous regard for life. they're not rogue. they hold back, and they ask for permission to open fire. they get that permission, and they blow these men away. you see the people on the ground scurrying way.

said is not killed outright, he is dragging himself away, and then a van pulls up to help the wounded. there's children in the van. it's from the neighborhood, and a father driving the van, and they explode the van. and they kill said as well. the reuters employees are killed along with the men in the neighborhood. there's 12 people altogether. reuters asked the military for this video for years, and they never got it. it was only when it was released by wikileaks that reuters saw the last moments of their employees' lives. and we see what took place there. bradley manning talked about in the courtroom when he had his chance to address the court saying i felt it was important for people to know what was happening. and you could disagree with him. you could say he absolutely had no horse to do this -- no authority to do this, and that is fine. but we have to make decisions based on facts, and hearing people making their own cases. this is a critical document of

war. um, and, you know, that happened to have happened before the obama administration. of course, president obama became president in 2009, but it's the crackdown that has happened since that has people so deeply concerned whether we're talking about information about war or we're talking about the men or who are languishing at guantanamo, 166 of them, most of them cleared for release, a number of them held for more than ten years, and yet they remain there. and now we hear and we've been doing a number of pieces on this on democracy now, that it may well be that a majority of them are on hunger strike. the obama administration slowly admitting this day by day, increasing the numbers of those admitting that they are on hunger strike. but what message are we sending to the world when we hold people without charge for more than ten years and say they can be held

indefinitely? i think that's frightening and endangers u.s. officials overseas, endangers u.s. soldiers overseas. and i think it's something that we as journalists must cover. >> host: page 218 of amy goodman's recent book, "the silenced majority," president obama spoke at the opening of the mlk memorial here in washington d.c. amy goodman writes: what obama left unsaid is that king, were he alive, would most likely be protesting obama administration policies. we have an hour and a half left with our guest this month on "in depth," amy goodman. our producer, tonya davis, often sends the authors that we have on the program a series of questions, and she sent amy a series of questions as well. amy goodman provided answers, and we want to show those to you now.

>> host: amy goodman, one and a half hours left in our program today, and this is an e-mail from robert holdman, mdn pueblo, colorado. given the words spoken by president obama during the 2008 and 2012 campaigns, are you disappointed by his actions? will the u.s. ever adopt a single-payer health care system? >> guest: very important question. and i'd like to also go back to the issue you raised, peter, before the break, and that is president obama speaking at the dedication of the mlk memorial, the dr. king memorial. you know, here we are on this sunday. it is 45 years ago, um, it was 45 years ago on april 4th, 1968, that dr. king was gunned down at the lorraine motel on the balcony. he went down to memphis that

week to stand with sanitation workers who were simply trying to organize a local union, 1707 of afscme. you know, and we were covering the protests in this wisconsin. for young people who are thinking, you know, now issues are very gray, it was much more clearcut, black and white ba4xlj

. >> guest: dr. king gave another address that didn't get as much attention after he died, though we play it every year on dr. king addressed riverside church, thousands gathered there, and he said, sadly, that his country is the greatest purveyier of violence today. he was speaking out against the war in vietnam. there were many even in his inner circle who said don't do it, martin, don't speak out. you have achieved the support of the most powerful person on earth, the president of the united states. it was lynn to be johnson at that time -- lynn don johnson at

that time. you got him to sign the civil rights act. do not alienate him now. but dr. king saw this as his duty as a seamless web. as he was concerned about injustice at home, he was concerned about it abroad. and i just came from the national conference on media reform where it was pointed out that one of the magazines that most affected dr. king in seeing what was happening on the ground in vietnam was the independent publication ramparts. so dr. king gave that address. dr. king, who is hailed today all over the country, all over the world, "time" magazine called his speech, um, talked about it as demagogic saying it sounded like the script from radio hanoi. "the washington post" right here in washington said with that speech he did a disservice to his cause, his country, his

people. yet dr. king wouldn't stop. he continued to speak out against war. and i think that is very relevant today in and why we did that column on what dr. king would be saying today. um, would he be invited to his own, the celebrations of his life today? and as president obama presided over the honoring of dr. king with the memorial, what would dr. king have to say about president obama's policies around war? what's happening, for example, now in afghanistan and the expanded covert wars in the form of drone attacks in pakistan and beyond. >> host: in a recent column, amy goodman, you praised senator rand paul. is it -- maybe praised is the wrong word. >> guest: well, i talked about what he did. rand paul, um, engaged in a filibuster for a day, and it was

quite remarkable. protesting drone attacks, protesting -- and it was not only rand paul, but a number of his colleagues on the republican side of the aisle. now, democratic senator ron wyden also spoke because he, along with senator udall, had been also deeply concerned about these issues from drone attacks to surveillance. what senator paul was raising on that day, and we'll see if he raises it again, is could a u.s. citizen be killed on u.s. soil, you know, eating in a café? be killed in a drone attack? he detailed what happened many yemen with the killing of anwar al-awlaki. this is a story that jeremy scahill went to investigate, former democracy now producer, with his film "dirty wars" that's coming out. he went and met with the

al-awlaki family. but not only did president obama have awlaki killed, you know, without trial, without charge, a drone attack in yemen kills not only anwar al-awlaki whether you think what he is saying is right or you think it's absolutely reprehensible, he was an american citizen, and you have to ask this question should we be doing it to anyone? killing this american citizen, then two weeks later dropping another missile, bomb, drone strike on his son who was born in denver, 16 years old. what did his son do? and, actually, senator paul raised this question, what was his crime? that he was the son of his father? these are very serious questions. i would expand rand paul's questions to not only u.s. citizens, but anyone.

but it was very significant what he did on that day. >> host: bill in washington, d.c., thanks for holding. you're on the air on booktv with amy goodman. >> caller: ms. goodman, how are you doing? >> guest: good. >> caller: just want today see if you might have had a shoutout to ron pinchback. have you seen him lately? >> guest: i haven't. i just flew into washington on the red eye this morning. >> host: bill, who is ron pinchback? >> guest: he's the person who's sort of responsible for bringing amy goodman on the air back at psw. maybe -- well, but that's not really what i wanted to talk about, that was sort of a -- [inaudible] ms. goodman, i've tried the basilica foundation and c-span, for that matter, they're equally culpable in this and to, of course, major media, have you

ever heard of a project by the pentagon called the harp project? >> guest: i have. >> caller: okay. just if i could quickly say this to the listeners who might not have heard about this, it's haarp which stands for harmonic oural atmospheric research project. there have been hearings on this that are in the congressional record during the '90s, and if you go to google and you write in haarp weaponry, you get 1.5 million entries. >> host: so, bill, your point with this, asking about this? >> caller: this system is something that can cause earthquakes, it can do weather modifications, steer storms wherever, create them where they aren't -- >> host: and what's your view about it, bill? >> caller: well, the last part is the most important. it's even been shown to have

qualities of mind control. that could be linked to the arab spring. andrea mitchell, um, was recording a little piece on this showing that prior to the surge or about the time of surge in iraq that they may have used this weapons system which is based in alaska to quiet down the population. >> host: all right. you know what, bill? let's hear from amy goodman. thanks for calling in. >> guest: well, i don't know enough about the haarp project. i know it involves manipulation of weather, and you're -- this is something i'll look into. >> host: but ron pinchback? >> guest: he was the former manager of wpfw. democracy now was on the station before ron was general manager, but i haven't spoken to him recently. but if he's watching, hi, ron. [laughter] >> host: jeff is in long beach, california. jeff, please go ahead.

>> caller: hi, amy. >> guest: hi. >> caller: hi. i've listened to democracy now for several years now, i'm a big admirerrer of your work. i just have three questions for you. first, you know, i often tell by friends and coworkers about democracy now, and i've repeatedly gotten or heard the same thing from people who consider themselves to be progressive and that is they're concerned democracy now is leftist and has an agenda, and i assume you've encountered this as well, and i wonder how you responded to it and how i could do the same. second, i'm wondering why you haven't interviewed bob aadvantage yang on your program before -- >> host: i'm sorry, jeff, who wt was the last name? >> guest: the head of the revolutionary communist party. >> host: okay. >> caller: and then lastly i'm interested in your perspective around the issue of living a balanced life, because there's so many injustices going on in the world, and i just wonder how you balance being a journalist

and activist and still being a good family member, a good life partner to a significant other, a physically healthy person who makes time to exercise, eat well, travel -- >> host: all right, jeff. let's hear the answers. >> guest: thanks, jeff. yes, living a balanced life is very important for everyone. we should know what's in the food we eat, we should be very careful about it. exercise is very important. and we all strive for that. there is a lot we have to do in the world, and whatever job we have, whatever we do, um, i think it should involve in some way striving for peace and bettering our communities. the other questions were -- oh -- >> host: the revolutionary communist party. >> guest: we haven't interviewed him. there are many people we haven't interviewed, but certainly would be someone who would be interesting to talk to.

>> host: and if i may rephrase his first question, do you consider yourself a leftist? >> guest: i don't think labels are productive or instructive. i, what i say to people is watch and listen to the show. it is amazing who watches and listens. of course, we don't know most of the people who do, because we're talking about millions of people many this country and around the world. i think labels break down in this country now. i mean, whether you're talking about progressive or conservative, liberal or democrat, even republican, i think that people are rethinking the way we live. and you can never assume what people's views are on anyish. and as a journalist, i mean, it is our job to go outside what is considered the status quo especially in the mainstream media, because i don't really think it's mainstream anymore. you know, we just passed the

tenth anniversary of the invasion of iraq, and that week of programming we did in the past week i didn't think it was particularly radical to bring on iraqis to talk about what happened to their country. but when i watched the rest of the media, there were very few iraqis interviewed. we also look back at ten years ago, and this is very important for today, when we look at iran, when we look at north korea and we see the push really in a direction of war, um, add very tently or inadvertently, north korea, for example, where is the issue, where is the evidence? we have to start there. and when you go back ten years ago in iraq, fair did a very interesting study, fair.org, of the two weeks around colin powell giving his push for war

at the u.n. i write about this, and i was just giving a speech at the the u.n. the fact that so many news organizations, um, in the time when half the population was opposed to war, the four major nightly newscasts -- abc, nbc, cbs and the pbs "newshour" -- two weeks around paul giving his push at the u.n., he was secretary of the tate at the time -- state at the time, it was a final nail in the coffin for so many because he'd been so respected for dragging his feet on war saying is the evidence in. but on that day, february 5, 2003, six weeks before the invasion, he said the evidence is in. and that swayed so many. but, you know, the population was wided. and -- divided. and these newscasts were so important at this time. they set the agenda. 393 interviews done around war in that two week period on those four newscasts. would we expect, 200, 150 would

be with people for the war and against the war? no, three against the war. three anti-war leaders of almost 400 interviews. no longer mainstream media. it's an extreme media beating the drums for war. we know in the first book that my brother david goodman and i wrote, "exceptions to the rules," we call it that because that is our job in the media, to be the exception to the rules. i'm in all the media. not just democracy now. the exception to the rulers. and the second book we wrote, "static. government liars, media cheerleaders and the people who fight back," we called it "static" because in this high-def age, still all we ever get is static, that veil of distortion and lies and misrepresentations and half truths that obscure reality when what we need the media to give us is the dictionary definition of static.

criticism. opposition. unwanted interference. we need a media that covers power, not covers for power. we need a media that is the fourth estate. and we need a media that creates static and makes history. >> host: and the third book that you wrote together, "standing up to the madness," 2008, how to stand up to the madness, the rules of the road, challenge the corporate media. number two, don't follow the leaders. number three, question authority. number four, speak up. >> host: what's that number seven about? [laughter] >> guest: oh, that's a way to get at the voices of people you wouldn't normally hear. we take the show on the road, and we go into communities, and we wring out the voices -- bring out the voices of people who are so rarely interviewed.

you know, so often you have these media-appointed leaders of the communities when they are not the leaders that people in their own communities think. and to bring out these stories whether we're talking about, oh, some like it hot, the whole issue of climate change, we were looking at the climate change scientists, particularly relevant today one of the people we profiled was james hanson, and he just announced he's retiring at nasa. but he was one of the early people to testify before congress. he was deeply concerned marley in the bush add -- particularly in the bush administration that the government was vacuuming the words "global warming" off of government web sites. you know, whether we call it global warming or climate change or climate disruption, you know, some people pooh-pooh it, and they say, oh, you call this global warming? then why is it so cold? well, the earth is heating up, but it is about extreme weather. and i have a message to weather

people on all of the channels. you know, a lot of people tune in for the weather. you've got to figure out what to wear. each day. but you know how the lower third, you know, the bottom of the screen that, you know, tellings you who -- tells you who the person is speaking, it'll often flash extreme weather. it should flash another two words: climate change. global warming. because people shouldn't just be tuning in to see what to wear that day, but what can we do about this? this is not inevitable. we have covered the climate change conferences. democracy now head today copenhagen to cover it there, we headed to new mexico for the summit there, south africa, doha we just came from in qatar. these u.n. climate change summits. why? does anything get accomplished there? well, the actual diplomatic meetings are very pain. , very bureaucratic and not a

lot gets down. but with our emphasis on bringing out the voices of people at the grassroots, it's remarkable. the movement around climate change is so much more advanced because people are suffering, you know, especially island nations. their countries will be submerged and parts of them are, the decertification of africa. they're directly hearing it, but we are too. we just hear about it in terms of weather reports. whether we're talking about the forest fires from california to colorado, the drench l rains, superstorm sandy or the dust bowl conditions of the midwest, we should hear about this as much as we hear about the weather being severe or extreme. why? and what can we do about it? and we just talk about in this book just people who don't go looking for trouble, but when it comes to them, how they speak out. like the kids of connecticut and their teacher. >> who was or is bonnie

dickenson, speaking of which? >> guest: bonnie dickenson is a drama teacher at willton high in connecticut. and the kids and bonnie decided to do a play that year. you know, every year high schools have their annual play, and they wanted to do a play about the iraq war. and they took the letters and statements of soldiers written home, and they made a play. and they, you know, made the costumes, and they learned their lines, and they were very enthusiastic. i went to willton high, and i saw the theater and everything. but as it was coming time for the performance, the principal walked in and said, you know, you can make your sets and you can learn your lines and keep making the costumes, but you're not performing this play here. and the kids said what are you talking about? we to a play every year, and we've chosen to do this one. he said, no, you're not going to take on the issue of war. and they begged and pleaded, and he said that ship has sailed. then "the new york times" did an article about the censorship,

and that led theaters in new york like the culture project and the public theater to invite the high school students to do what actors dream of all their lives, to perform on the new york stage. and i went, um, to one of these productions and did the talkback with the kids afterwards, and it was amazing. i did it at the culture project at the public theater, the soldiers whose words were taken were in the audience, so deeply moving. and bonnie was, almost lost her job as the drama teacher. um, these children learned a tremendous lesson. i mean, that if you stand up to the madness, you know, ordinary heroes in extraordinary times interestingly, the man who wrote stepford wives lived in willton, connecticut, and he wrote a letter to the new york times congratulating the kids in the drama class of willton high

saying, congratulating them for not being stepfordized. he said the stepford wives were based on willton, connecticut. >> host: that's amy goodman talking about her 2008 book, "standing up to the madness." a quote from that book: protesting is an act of love. it is born of a deeply-held conviction that the world can be a better, kinder place. saying no to injustice is the ultimate declaration of hope. amy goodman, your first three books have different covers, but your last two -- "breaking the sound barrier" and "the silenced majority" -- both have your picture on it. is there an editorial decision there? >> guest: well, those are the book of columns we do for king features every week, breaking the sound barrier and now the latest one, "the silenced majority." and that was just the

publisher's decision. there's this introduction by bill moyers, and the silenced majority: stories of uprising, occupations, resistance and hope, has an introduction by michael moore. and these are the weekly interviews, um, that we do on democracy now and taking one story each week and sort of making that, bringing that out so it'll be published in newspapers around the country. there are, there's so much to coverment in that week of the tenth -- cover. many that week of the tenth anniversary of iraq, we interviewed thomas young. now, thomas is a young soldier who went to iraq, and he wasn't there five days before he was in sadr city in baghdad, and it was april 4, 2004, the same day that casey sheehan die inside sadr city. he was is the son of cindy

sheehan, she set up the camp outside bush's ranch in texas. but thomas was shot, um, and he was paralyzed from the february february -- from the neck down. came back to the united states, and, um, he started speaking out against war after he was somewhat rehabilitated. but then he threw a pulmonary embolism a few years ago, and his physical health started to deteriorate. and he is now making a decision -- we sent a camera crew into his house in kansas city with his wife, claudia, because his voice was soft, and we wanted to insure people could hear what he was saying, what he was thinking. and we had phil donahue in our studio in new york. now phil, of course, everyone knows from the phil donahue show, sort of oprah before oprah, and then he had a show on msnbc, right before the invasion and was summarily dumped even though it was the most popular show on msnbc, it was the 8:00

slot in the evening. and we got ahold of the secret nbc memo that essentially said afterwards as we move into war, we're not going to have an anti-war face on a flagship show when the other networks are waving the american flag. i think that expressing that view that phil did or having guests on that dared to speak out against war, i mean, is patriotic. peace is patriotic. but phil did a film, his first documentary, about thomas seven years ago called "body of war." and has remained in touch with thomas ever since. and thomas is deciding whether to take his own life. he says that he cannot deal with the pain, he feels the veterans amanagers, the va hospital, has failed him. he's in terrible pain. he had a tremendous will to live, but the pain has worn him down. and i fear that many soldiers find themselves in the

situation, i mean, the horrific numbers of suicide we see today with soldiers coming home from iraq and afghanistan, almost like one a day, and the number if you put that together with all veterans in the united states, we're talking, i mean, i still find this hard to believe, 18 people a day? um, but thomas young is, has announced that he will take his own life in the next few months. i said is there anything that would deter you from this? what if you could deal with the pain? what if -- and he said, well, that would be different. but his is a story that everyone should know. and, you know, just talking about activism and what it means to say no, which is also a very brave act of saying yes. earlier in this discussion i talked about the little rock nine, but we've also just passed the 100th anniversary of the birth of the great rosa parks. and i think it's really instructive to know her story,

because the media has gotten that story wrong as well. you know, i remember when she died in 2005. you know, everyone knows it. and the basic outline of what she did is accurately described. but in 2005 when she died, we raced down to washington because, you know, she was of the first african-american woman to lay in state and lay in honor in the capitol rotunda. of now president obama's just dedicated her statue. and then her body was taken to a big washington church, thousands came out for the service. julian bond, the former chair of the naacp, oprah, they all gave these eloquent speeches, and they had loudspeakers outside so everyone could hear, and we were outside where it's often more interesting to be. i talked to a young student and said i won't be in class today, i'm going to get an education. [laughter] so the story that is told, you know, she sits down in the bus,

refuses to get up when asked to do so by a white bus driver, refuses to get up for a white passenger and in so doing stands up for everyone. when one person so pressed, we are all oppressed. she refused to get up. is she launches the modern day civil rights movement. a few days later she goes to court, and the montgomery association chooses as their leader a young minister who's just come into town, martin king. and a year later a supreme court decision, the bus boycott wearing down the city of montgomery, and the transportation system of montgomery is she grated. so -- is integrated. so what did the media get it wrong? i remember when we came down to washington, i remember the networks that day. cnn, actually, it was a story that they did. they said rosa parks was a tired seam stress, she was no troublemaker. rosa parks was a first class troublemaker. she knew exactly what she was doing. saw parks was secretary of a

local naacp. there's a great book that's just congresswoman out called the rebel cross life of mrs. rosa parks, i encourage everyone to read it. but rosa parks was a secretary at the local naacp. she worked under idi nixon, he worked under a. phillip randolph who helped organize the 1963 march on washington. he and idi nixon helped organization the brotherhood of sleeping carporters, thousands of them who rode the trains, all called george. their mothers didn't name them george, but they were called george for the owner of the train, george pullman. and you know the famous story of eleanor roosevelt taking a. phillip randolph to meet with fdr, and he describes the condition of black people many this country to president fdr, roosevelt. he describes the condition of working people in this country, and fdr listens intelligently and then responds, i don't disagree with anything you've

said, but you'll have to make me do it. and interestingly, when barack obama was running for president the first time, he was in the backyard of a new jersey home, about 100 people there to see him, and he was taking questions. and a man at the back raised his hand and said what are you going to do about the middle east? he repeated the story of a. phillip randolph and fdr and fdr saying to a. phillip randolph, make me do it. that's interesting for anyone in this country to be a responsible citizen. you have to make your demands known. but rosa parks knew just what she was doing. she was an activist. she trained at the highlander center in tennessee. king had been there. black and white together learning to most effectively strategize to change the laws. the media denigrates activists, but what can be more noble than dedicating your life to making the world a better place?

and to show how brave rosa was, just go back a few months to the summer of '55 to the killing of emmitt till. emmitt till was a 14-year-old african-american boy in chicago, and his mother wanted him out of the city for the summer, sent him to mississippi to be with an aunt and uncle. he's dragged out of bed in the middle of the night by a white mob, and he ends up at the bottom of the river. when emmitt's body was dredged up, and this had a huge influence also on carlotta walls who i talked about earlier who was one of the little rock nine, he -- because emmitt was 14, she was 14 when she deintegrated the central high school in arkansas. but emmitt, when his body was sent back to chicago, his mother mamie till, she wasn't an activist, she was thrust into this. the agony of losing her only child. she said she wanted the casket open for the wake and the

funeral. she wanted the world to see the ravages of racism, the brutal brutality of bigotry. thousands streamed by his casket and saw. and then jet magazine and other black publications, actually took photographs of his mutilated head, and they were published. and they were seared into the history and consciousness of this country. mamie till had something very important to teach the press of today. show the pictures. show the images. could you imagine if for just one week we saw the images of war, every surviving newspaper above the fold the picture of a dead baby on the ground, naming her, writing an article about her, every top of every tv and radio newscast, a story of of a soldier dead and dying, if on everyone's facebook wall, every tweet, every e-mail told the story of a woman whose legs were blown off by cluster bombs or a

family killed in a drone attack for just one week. americans are a compassionate people. they would say, no, war is not the answer in the 21st century. >> host: our guest on "in depth" this month author and journalist, amy goodman. jeff in bend, oregon, you have been the most patient caller if history. please go ahead. >> caller: thank you for taking my call. you visited us last summer -- >> guest: yes. >> caller: you'll be high desert community -- [inaudible] >> guest: hi desert community radio. i remember that journey very well. it was a great honor to be in bend. >> caller: it was an honor to have you. well, my question is in regards to the lpfms, the low-powered fm radios which were intended to fill the void of local reporting left by major media, by folks seen on local community issues. and the majority of these licenses have been issued to organizations which predominantly broadcast

syndicated content rather than local content. and i was wondering what's your opinion on this and the issues of local grassroots access to the media? thanks. >> guest: i mean, it's very important when the fcc, you know, opens up these windows where there are stations that are made available. either low power stations or full power stations. it is a real opportunity for people to have local media in their community. and whether it's, you know, grassroots global news hour that can connects the dots between communities all over the country and around the world or local programming which is so important so people in the community have a voice, these are very important moments. and i just want to also comment that right now julius genachowski, the chair of the fcc, the federal communications commission, has announced he's stepping down. another fcc commissioner is also stepping down. that leafs two -- leaves two of

the five seats open. this is a very critical time for fcc policy. we know what happened about ten years ago. you know, i had talked about koh lib powell being -- colin powell being secretary of state and making that push for war at the u.n. february 5, 2003. his son, michael powell, was the chair of the fcc, the federal communications commission. you know, it used to be people didn't even know what the fcc was, this arcane agency in the u.s. government. but their sure figured it out fast when, um, michael powell started to try to deregulate the media. which meant, you know, a lot of people across the political spectrum are deeply concerned about one media mow dull owning the newspaper, radio, television in a town. and when you relax the regulations, that's what happens. and it is very dangerous when you only have, um, you know, one media mogul towns and cities.

it is a very serious issuement we need to open up the discussion. and what counts is not having hundreds of cable channels. what counts is who owns them. and it also applies to the internet. we have to fight to insure that the internet remains open and free-for-all people to be able to communicate and not let the telecoms and the cable companies write the legislation that would privatize this invaluable public resource. ..

broke through a police line, arrested by park police. amy was videotaping the action as a journalist but was arrested anyway. i was in the paddy wagon with her as we were taken to jail and she was fuming the entire trip. keep up your brave journalism, amy. >> guest: that was a very significant moment. i was actually on my cell phone, interviewing these women in front of the white house, and managed to break through, asking what they were going to be doing. the police were there lined up with horses, and going on different community radio stations, and talking to them, and the police, when i moved back, as the police were moving in, they took me first. >> host: amy gooman made the statement that flairing off gas on oil wells was being done in

nigeria, but it was illegal in the u.s. it is in fact being done in north dakota. this is an e-mail. >> guest: that's very interesting. i want to know more with what is happening in this country, and one of the -- when things are legal or illegal in nigeria, these were apartment building size flares that wouldn't -- in most places would not be allowed in the united states, and i'll look into what you're saying about north dakota. >> host: jesse was in elizabethtown, pennsylvania, jesse negotiating ahead with your question or comment. >> caller: hello. very, very glad you folks could have me. my name is jesse waters, the director othe bowers writers house in elizabethtown, pennsylvania. democracy now, fantastic organization. i was just wondering if perhaps you can speak a little -- bit about other organizations you

think are doing the same good work you are, and let me take this moment to personally invite you to our college and our writers house, we'd love to have you out there. >> guest: i'd love to come. thank you very much. you know, independent media is on the rise in the united states. all over the country you see public access tv, public television pbs, community radio, college radio, web sites, that are truly independent, and it's very important and it's so important in the community for people to know where they can make their own media. you can't just walk into nbc, abc, and cbs, and start doing a program. but learning the tools. the media can be most powerful force on earth. it's the way we learn been the world. if we're not from a place, how do you learn about it?

it is through all too often a corporate lens, and we need tote be through an independent lens, and certainly need the rest of the world to see us through an independent lens. that is a matter of national security. so, there are many different organizations, online, media groups, media literacy groups, look in your community. you can go to democracy now.org. our global news hour, and we link to a many different -- be interview every day so many different people, representing different groups. >> host: in fact, for that caller previous, you can send an invitation to you as well at that web site. >> guest: that's right. >> host: who is juan gonzalez? >> guest: i just left him in denver last night. he is heading back this morning to new york. one is one of the great journalists in this country today. juan has co-hosted democracy now from its inception 17 years ago. he was also a columnist with the

new york daily news and has been for many years. juan also has written many books. his latest two are, well -- live for other people. the epic story of race in the american media. critical look, written with jo -- joe torres, another journalist with free press. it's a history of how the media developed in this country, with a particular attention on coverage of color out there in the country and the coverage of color. the books previous to that, which was just recently re-issued, is called harvest of empire, and a film has just been made based on the book. his book is required reading in many classrooms across the country, "harvest of empire."

so there was a movie made. the untold story of latinos in america. and tells a very different story in this critical day around the issue of immigration, and why people come to the united states. whether we're talking about some nicaragua, from guatemala, largely from mexico where most of the immigrants in the united states in latin america come from. and also a couple that -- the news this week of the drafting of the i-word. this weekend juan was on a panel with a group of young women, and among them -- head hoff the applied research center, the publisher of colorlines.com. they were one of the groups that led the drop the i-word campaign. the term is illegal immigrant or

illegal alien. the term illegal to describe a person. that is what they want to drop. and the ap has finally made that decision. that you cannot -- you can refer to an illegal activity but you don't refer to a person asen illegal -- as an illegal. it's very important because "associated press" provides news to news outlets around the country. not only a news organization in itself. so that change and one of the things juan talked about on the panel is the changes when we -- when news organizations stop using the word colored or stop using the word negro. these decisions in a newspaper has roist -- the question question is will the new york times stop using this or the washington post? but the ap made the decision and it also shows in our coverage this week on democracy now, the difference between democracy now and a lot of the other media.

when something like this happens, where a decision gets made by a president or vice president or congress, we show the organizing that went into making that happen. is it just the leadership of ap that wakes up in the morning and says, over coffee, why don't we drop the i-word? why don't we stop describing people as illegals. no. it comes from years of campaigning, just the same with legislation, for example. legislation that made public broadcasting in the country. lyndon johnson signed off on it. so often the history books just say that. but it comes from grassroots activism, and there's nothing that is more american than that. and that is what is important to show. journalism is the first draft of history. it's not just the story of the leaders. it's the story of the people on the ground that go to those leaders make demands of the

leaders, and that's what we try to document. how this happens. where the grassroots mechanism as they're happening. >> host: next call to amy goodman, a little over half an our left. beth in east hampton, connecticut. hi, beth. >> caller: hi, howl you doing. very big supporter of democracy now. very much enjoying the show. i have a quick comment and then a question -- >> guest: where do you hear or watch or read democracy now? >> caller: i'm a -- i think one of the -- university of hartford. >> guest: uh-huh. whef? >> yeah. i think it comes on twice a day. >> guest: this is a radio station that is one of the oldest community radio stations in the country. the second oldest, of students at western university ran from wire in the basement of the university. i think it was 1939. and community media in this country is so important because

it shows this hunger for communicating with each other, for bringing out independent voices. so, it's great to hear from you, beth. >> host: go ahead, beth. >> caller: a lot more independent shows like yours because i'm sick of watching the main stream media, and cable. but i have a quick comment and then a question if i may mitchell quick comment is that aam jewish american. i am a member of jewish voices for peace, and i do not agree with the commenter on -- i think about the israeli -- we're not getting the full message. and i just want to put that out there. the jewish community is not homogenous. there's a lot of us who know that there's a lot more to this issue. my question and my main issue question has to do with the term partnership prenuptial agreement. it's even worse than nafta. and one of the main precepts is

that corporations will not have to follow the laws of the country in which they're doing business, and it being negotiated behind closed doors with many different countries, in the asia, east area, and even our legislators aren't even knowing what is going on. i have written several times to my senator and representatives to see if they can get a copy of that for me. some was leaked on the public citizen web site -- >> host: beth, let's get a response from our guest. >> guest: well, public citizen is very important source of information on these so-called free trade agreements, which are often nothing more than corporate managed trade. they're not about free trade. and it's important that we just discuss this and not only democracy now but all of the

media, who benefits and who doesn't. >> guest: and we will certainly do more on that. >> host: on the facebook page, we have this comment: amy, what is your view of ron paul and the libertarian approach to society? >> guest: ron paul has left the congress. a doctor from texas. his son rand paul is a senator now. we tried to interview ron paul many times. we were not able to. but i -- you know, it's not one opinion. it is about looking at the different issues that he dealt with. on the issue of war, he was fiercely opposed to war, and i think you see that from right to left, you see why these lines are breaking down, where you have libertarians deeply

concerned about war, certainly, ron paul was. the issues of his newsletters and the racism in the newsletters, in this early years, are of great concern as well. and it just makes me think today there's no connection, just thinking of the last few weeks of our programming. one of the things we have been looking at are the terrible killings of the prison chiefs in colorado and then an ada in texas, and then a d.a. and his wife in texas. and are there connections between these killings? and the concern of -- we don't know absolutely those colorado prison chief, looks like the suspect died in texas, part of white supremacist prison gang who got out of jail. but the rise of the aryan brotherhood of texas, the abt, is a very, very serious issue,

and i don't mean in any way to connect that with the question that was just asked. i just moved on to another topic. but very few people know in this country about the seriousness of the threat of these white supremacist groups, that the justice department places at the highest level. you could be sure if there were questions about whether these were african-americans are muslims, a lot more of the country would know about this. and we must know about what is happening there. these are very serious threats. >> host: ed e-mails from redmond, oregon, this week, you are advocating the majority needs to move on gun control. is that what you're doing on democracy now? >> guest: we're covering the issue. like the rest of the media. though we don't cover it like the rest of the media. >> host: do you personally or your broadcast studio use armed

security? >> host: was his question. whether you choose to answer that is up to you. >> guest: we don't have armed security. i am -- >> host: do you worry about your safety? not in east timor necessarily. >> guest: i just carry on doing my job. i mean, i think on the issue of armed security, i was just thinking about the report that just came out from the national rifle association, pushing for armed guards in all the schools. we had a serious discussion about this in addition to the nelson debate, the residents for and against every household being armed. on the same show we brought on judith of the advancement project. they have come out very critical of this call for armed guards in every school in columbine, for example, there was an armed

guard there but that didn't stop the shooting. resources, what is happening to our schools, and the big advocate of public education. deeply concerned about people having access to education, no matter what family they're born into, it's a great equalizer in the country, and because resources are limited, it is also an issue of where those resources go. do you make these schools armed camps or put the money into bettering education for young people in this country? so these are the issues we have to debate. i think the question of gun control should also be put to president obama. this week, -- a assistant managing editor at some interesting bullet points, and

we had him on the show the other day, about -- no pun intended on the bullet points -- but questioning president obama himself about where he stands on these issues, the words versus the action. went to colorado and now is going to connecticut, to push for gun control. but when it actually comes down to it, when dianne feinstein's assault weapons ban, which excluded thousands of guns already, went down, did president obama speak? when he gave a "state of the union" address, many might remember or think of it as a time where he really came out for gun control, but there he was just pushing for voting on gun control, which paul barrett described as a way for probe gun democrats to vote against getting passed from president obama, and i think this all comes from the top. nathaniel rifle association is

also just so important now in this whole discussion about corporations, to look at money in politics and who makes decisions, and on whose behalf are they making these decisions? politicians who have been so bee -- beholding to the national rifle association for so long. >> host: amy goodman is our guest. this is our in depth program. she is the author of five nonfiction books. in 2004, the exception to the rulers. exposing oily politicians. world profiteers and the media that love them. static, government liars, media cheerleaders and those who fight back. and then in 2008, standing up to the madness. ordinary heros in extraordinary times. the sound barrier came out in 2009. and her most recent, the silenced majority, stories of uprisings, occupations, resistance, and hope. this e-mail comes from anita,

amy, thank you for all you do. you're a true hero. would you please comment on the movement to end corporate personhood and also on scott silver's work related to this. we talked about this earlier but very briefly, if you wouldn't mind touching on it. >> guest: i don't know about the individual the person is talking about. the move to amend is a very important movement that is gaining momentum around the country, a constitutional amendment to strip corporations of personhood. and we're just documenting that as it happens. >> host: sherry french from cue way. aloha, amy. i congratulate you on the courage displayed during the republican convention in minneapolis-st. paul when you jumped the fence to continue reporting. please tell us more about the police and their interaction with protesters. mahalo and aloha to you and your

associates. a big hello to you. i mean, our experience covering not this past republican convention but the republican convention? 2008 was extremely serious. the democracy now team went as many other news organizations did, and as many other news organizations, were subjected to, dewere arrested at the republican conviction was arrested along with two of my colleagues, who now reports from egypt, and nicole salazar, our producer at the time, and it was the first day of the republican convention, which didn't bode well for how things were going to go. it was monday. we were covering a piece protesting, beautiful blue sky day and 10,000 people marching from st. paul to the center where the convention was going to take place that afternoon. we were covering the protest. it was led by soldiers, some in full military regular -- regalia.

they risk a lot when they do that. deeply concern about war. so we covered that. and then i went to floor of the convention to cover the convention. >> host: you had credentials? >> guest: oh, yeah. all of us do. so i went to cover the convention floor and my colleagues went back to the tv studio where we were broadcasting from to start digitized tape and prepare the show for the next day. so i'm on the floor of the convention. and interviewing delegates from the hottest state at the time, alaska. and i get a call on my cell phone, come quickly to seventh and jackson in st. paul, nicole and therese have been arrested and blood eddied by police. i said what are you talking sunset they're in the tv studio. i left them. they said, it was mike burger, senior producer. he said go over there quickly. they're still there. so i was with rick rowling,

remarkable journalist and videographer who was filming my interviews on the floor of the convention and we raced down the streets of st. paul to the corner, seventh and jackson, old parking lot. the police had lined the area. they fully contained the area so there was no action taking place at that point. when i came up to the police issue had my full credentials on, around my neck. just come from the convention floor. allowed me to interview presidents and vice presidents and delegates. so i come along the police line, and i stopped. i was looking for the highest authority there. and i just stopped at one of the police officers and i said, excuse me, i'd like to talk to your commanding officer. two of my colleagues have credentials like i do. they're inside here. they surrounded the area. they've been arrested, and we need to have them released. it wasn't seconds before the police ripped me through, pull me through the police line,

twisted my arms back, slapped the handcuffs on, put me up against the car, then against the wall and on to the ground. and i'm still desperately looking for my vantage point on the ground in handcuffed, for therese and nicole, my colleagues. i don't see nicole anywhere. she is across the parking lot. hands behind the back. we're both standing hands behind our backs, credential inside clear view, and sailing we demand to be release. we're journalist, whereupon the secret service came and ripped the credentials from around our necks. so then the police take me and put me into the police van and there's nicole. the arm was bleeding. nicole's face was bleeding,. and i said, what happened? she said, well, you went to at the convention floor. we went back to the studio to prepare the show. we heard a commotion outside. we would have been doing their jobs if that hadn't put down the tape, run downstairs, grabbed a camera, a microphone, ran

downstairs, and they started filming. nicole did not plan to film her own violent arrest. you see the film very clearly. the riot police are coming at her and they're shouting, on your face, on your face, and move. she was against parked cars in a parking lot. she was tripped, fleming, and saying, move -- chev was sailing, where, they said, on your face. she didn't know what hit her. from in front of her and behind, the police took her down on her face, pulling on her leg, which is dragging her face in the gravel. they've got their boot in her back. the first thing to go down was the camera on the ground, and the first thing they did with the camera is pull the battery out of the camera. cherise, a superb journalist, just won major award from a college, the park center for independent media, the award from the great journalist.

cherise is right there, and he says to the police, calm down. and they take him, they throw him up against the wall. kick him twice in the chest, bloody his arm and they said, felony riot charms. i was charged with misdemeanor interfering with a peace officer. if only there was a peace of in the vicinity. so i'm brought to the garage and taken to jail. it is hours but there were so many responses from around the country that were -- i don't know -- faxed, e-mailed, called into authorities i was released and then therese and knick dole were released. i was brown to the con ven sentence and was in the nbc sky box and a report came over there and said, i don't get it. why wasn't arrested? i said were you outside covering the protest? he said, no. i said, well, this is what i thought. you got to get out there. 90% of life is just showing up.

our job is to be on the convention floor, cover the delegate, get speak corporate suites or attempt to see who is sponsoring the republican governor association or their democratic senate campaign it inee and also to be on the streets where the uninvited guests are and they have something important to say as well. you know, democracy is a messy thing, and it's our job to capture it all, and we shouldn't have to get a record when we put things on the record. so, we sued the st. paul minneapolis/st. paul police, the secret service. ultimately we settled for a six figure amount. the secret service did not want to admit they were the ones to pull our credentials off but the police already told us when we said you have no right to pull our credentials think said it wasn't us, it was the secret service. and it was very serious. and we came back and held a news conference, because we were

moving into the next convention, and we were not alone in being arrested. more than 40 journalists were arrested that week. and it is not acceptable. we have to be able to do our job. it is not a comfortable one. we have to be in all places, and when the police -- when there is a protest and they say, you don't follow this protest on to the bridge, who will be the eyes and ears? who will watch what is happening? and right now there's an unprecedented trial going on in new york, the stop and frisk case. hundreds of thousands, 700,000 last year african-american and latino overwhelmingly young people, usually young men, are stopped and frisked by police. we have to be there to see this. and the question is now, will the police change their policy? it's not a comfortable position, but we occupy a certain role in society. and that is to hold those in power accountable.

and we have to be free to do our job. it protects the democratic society. >> host: amy goodman recounsels the story of the 2008 g.o.p. con sentence breaking the sound barrier. how was your treatment in tampa in 2012? >> guest: we covered the convention, and covered it from beginning to en, as we did the charlotte convention. what was really interesting about the democratic convention in charlotte is the first day of the convention, the action that took place was of undocumented immigrants. risking so much, came up in a bus covered with butterflies and got out of the bus, and started to walk quickly and chant "undocumented and unafraid. no papers no fear, no papers no fear." they went to the front of the convention center. remember, this is the democratic convention they're progress, and

the unfurled a banner in the rain with a big butterflies, and families were getting arrested. there was one gentleman who came off the bus who said, i have paid my tacks in this country for 18 years, which is more than citibank can say, and with that he and his wife and his daughter were arrested along with others, and as one of the women were getting arrested as the police moved in on them, asked her why the butterfly? why this image of the butterfly? she said because butterflies know no borders. butterflies are free. >> host: larry in centrale ya, washington, you're on. >> caller: what a pleasure to speak with amy goodman, and c-span. >> guest: hello. >> caller: question going back to your exception of the -- the book i bought some time ago and read self times. i notice the name paul wolfowitz pops up in j. paul bremer, his assistant. what was there capacity there in

indonesia? send comment. condoleezza rice on the board of chev ron says what wonderful job chevron is doing for nyeee -- nigeria. your comments, please. >> guest: all of these people are central figures to the occupation of iraq. and it's very important that we reflect back now as this country moves on, d well there are two different issues. one of is, should those who held high office be held accountable? should they be tried? and this is, as we cover movements, this is one of the movements that hat developed over the years. if people are not held accountable for their actions that history will repeat itself. now president obama has taken a very strong stand on this and says we should look forward, we shouldn't look back. but there are many who feel the only way to move forward is to hold those in power accountable.

those who had power in the past. and the iraq war is a very important place to start, because we now know, you know, that saddam hussein did not have the weapons of mass destruction despite the fact that the new york times principled story after story on the front pains of the papers but judith miller, by michael gordon. about a year later they did write an article -- they had a box on page a-10, something like "the new york times" and iraq. some people called it their mia cull pavement -- cull pa. i called it their kind d.a. culpa. and they should have that box on the front page of the paper as many times as the article appeared because that is what sinks into the consciousness of the american people. this whole issue of journalists using unnamed sources. there's a place for that. when a person is a whistle

blower and their family or they have been threatened, then there's a place for a journalist to make a decision or a news organization to say, we won't name you. but when it's about protecting a high level government official, for him or her to be able to put out a lie and then don't want it traced back to them, that's not seam acceptablen and news organizations have to re-evaluate when they base their articles on unnamed sources, because the lies take life. >> host: ed tweets to you, amy has interviewed top feminists. beyond being a great female journalist, what's amy goodman say about feminism? >> guest: i've talked about rosa parks today. who i think was a great

feminist, standing up for women, standing up for automatic people. standing up for african-americans. i talk about claudia nellson. these are women who stood up. there was a business series recently called makers i was privileged to be part of. people can go to the web site for a link or go to the pbs l.a. web site. where they interviewed many women across the political spectrum. you know, there is no question, as young women come up to me around the country, to talk about what they want to do in their future, how important it is to know who came before us, who were those remarkable pioneers who risked everything to make it possible for a young woman to say, i want a profession. i want to get out there. i want to make a difference. i want to save the world. and to have the confidence to be

able to do that. so we owe a lot to our foremothers and that's what feminism is all about. >> host: going back to standing up to the madness. there's a story in there-o in breaking the sound barrier -- i can't remember which one -- about the gentleman who wrote the over the rainbow, the words "over the rainbow." who was that? >> guest: well, was one of my dad's favorites, and it was -- would be familiar to many for the lyrics he wrote. you know the song, brother, can you spare a dime? as fortunately as relevant today as it was back in the 20's and 30s. you also know the musician who writes the music but you don't know the lyrics. harvard was a black-list lyricist.

he is this person who put together the wizard of oz. he is the one who wrote "somewhere over the rainbow." his son wrote a book "who put the rainbow in the wizard of oz." frankbaum who wrote the book didn't have a rainbow. andment witness did the first integrated all-black shows on broadway. he -- cabin in the sky. one of the people in that play was a guy called joe. and during the mccarthy era, joe mccarthy said he was talking about joseph stalin or joseph lenin. i can't remember which one. it was very inspiring to see all that rip brought us frock. brother can you spare a dime, to the wizard of oz. a as people watch the winter sadr of0s every thanksgiving,

what is interesting is that remarkable production got more and more attention on television as he was black-listed for many years, as many in hollywood were, and had these different names or couldn't work at all. so, yes, i write about and am inspired by it. we did a special on it. >> host: i got i wrong. it's in your most recent book -- sure i referred to it in the other ones. >> i want to ask you about the story in breaking the sound barrier. rumsfeld's mount misery. what is mount misery? >> guest: how much time do we have? >> host: you have two and a half minutes. >> guest: that's a toughy. well, rumsfeld in 2003, you know, got this property in eastern maryland, in st. michael's, which is called -- well, pediatric doug -- frederick douglass was borne in eastern maryland and was enslaved, by a man named

mccovey whose land was mount misery. and that property, mount misery, was bought by donald rumsfeld when he was secretary of defense, and i went down there to the property to see if this could possibly be true. went to an old black church down the road and asked the folks right before their sunday service, what do you think? here you have -- this is at the time the secretary of defense don rumsfeld, you have frederick douglass, who was tortured and escaped and was great abolitionist, and you have donald rumsfeld owning the very property where he was held, who is actually known for torture, when you talk about donald rumsfeld you talk about guantanamo and iraq. i say, what do you think about

this? and a woman in the church said to me, i can't comment right now. we're in church. >> host: steve in seattle. we just have a few minutes left with our guest. go ahead. >> caller: thank you. i first want to express my deep gratitude and respect for amy's work and the work of your team. i've very grateful as a reasonable and thinking individual in america. just wanted to quickly ask, having just last evening seen the documentary, detropa, and being still moved by it today. after so many years dealing with the most difficult issues and most heart-wrenchinging of topics what are your sources of hope as you deal with looking deeper into these most difficult and challenging topics? >> guest: well, that's a really important issue, is how we draw hope. as i travel the country, i'm often concerned, we have such

difficult issues to deal with, that people who watch or listen to democracy now, will be overwhelmed. but i am always amazed that they say they draw hope from what they see, because the analysts on democracy now are not your typical armchair analysts on the networks, in the know-nothing pundits i call them. they know people who are deeply engaged in their community so is they're not only analyzing the situation, they're talking about how they're dealing with it. so you don't have this sense that something is hopeless. when people take action, that is what is great about this country. and it is documenting those actions throughout this country and around the world, how in iraq today, which is still torn apart, by what we -- by what happened in 2003 by the u.s. invasion. how do people organize and draw hope? and timor, this new nation in

haiti, that has dealt with so much from the hurricanes to the economy that is racked, and devastated. also by its neighbor to the north. by the united states. how do people do this? and that is what i always draw inspiration from. and one of the things we do in democracy now is we give context. we talk about history. what people have done before. to show the richness of what has taken place in this country and around the world, and to give it context, which is often so lacking in the rest of the media. there are remarkable heroes and heroines all over and it's given voice to those people i fine so deeply nourishing and hopeful. >> host: jim from santa mop nick camp when the white house called about talking with president clinton, would you have refused to interview him had they insisted on putting restrictions

on the questions you could ask hem? >> guest: i just would -- i mean to me, when they say, who will only answer this question, you have to just make clear to the people who are listening and watching, what it is that they are saying. but very clearly they -- there were no restrictions, and if you had restrictions you could say, i understand that you will not be talking about this. but you can still ask the question. you're free not to answer it. we'll ask you what we ask you and you can say whether you're willing to answer it. >> host: pat miracle, e-mail. would you consider moderating a presidential debate? 2016 as well as determining its format, or would you please describe what a meaningful series of presidential debates could look like? >> guest: yes, well, actually we engaged in this year, 2012. we weren't waiting for 2016. the first presidential debate was in denver.

and so we went to denver, and before we went to denver, we want to virginia, and to virginia tech, and there we met up with colin goddard. one of those people who was shot up during the massacre in 2007. a film has been made about him called, living for 32. the 32 who died. he had four bullets in him, and he took me through virginia tech where the massacre took place, and he is now working with the brady campaign. he was working during the campaign to get the moderators of the debates to ask a question about gun control. to ask a question about gun violence. why is this so difficult? so we interviewed him. we toured through virginia tech. and then we flew to denver and we expanded the debate, and it was broadcast on public television and radio around the

country, and we did it for every debate. let me lay out what we did. the presidential candidates, the major party presidential candidates, were at the university of denver, i think, and the moderator was jim lerh, and we looked online that day and sow how they were dressing the set. you have the bright blue background and the two podiums. each time you didn't actually know in advance how it would look but we wanted to -- we were broadcasting from a comcast facility down the road where columbine high school is and we set up a very similar backdrop. ours said democracy now, and we went out and represented two podiums and dressed them similarly, and by the third party presidential candidate candidates were invited in. we invited in salt lake city mayor rocky anderson, who ran on the justice party line.

and we also invited in -- joel stein of the green party, and they sat at their -- stood at their podiums. i sat in relation to them as jim lehr sat in real estate to the major party -- sat in the major party candidates and the debat began with jim lehr asking him a question. i think he said, president obama, you won the coin toss. you have the two minutes, followed by mitt my, you have two minutes. we stopped the videotape and we said, -- joel stein, you have two minutes, and that was on the economy -- to answer the questions. rocky anderson, you have two minutes to answer this questions. back to my colleague, jim lehr with the next question, and we of course doubled the time of the debate because we were adding two people, and we had them respond to every one of these same questions. that is what expanding the debate sounds like.

that is what it looks like. and we did that in denver, and we did it with the other debates as well. and the differences you heard -- it really made you ask questions about the two party system, and how much they agree and how much they disagree. i sometimes think it's not partisan gridlock that is the problem in washington. it's the bipartisan consensus. >> host: we have been talking with author and journalist amy goodman. her five knopp fiction books, the exception to the rulers, was her first, static, government liars, media cheerleaders and the people who fight back. her second. standing up nor madness was third. the sound barrier, came out in 2009 and her most recent, the silenced majority, stories of upricings, occupations, resistance, and h